Lii Audio Speakers

Dedicated to those large boxes at one end of the room
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IslandPink
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#46 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by IslandPink »

Wouldn't that die away quickly though ? - it would just be frequency anomalies caused by the vent length and lobing with the main driver output, yes ? This sounded like stored energy being released, I could hear the box after the output from the upper Le Cleac'h horn had stopped. It was disappointing because the sides are well reinforced on those anyway, it was all 25mm birch ply and I had internal bracing.
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Ray P
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#47 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Ray P »

I thought I would try to understand this a bit better and have been playing with this calculator;

http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/BRH.html#plot

I entered the drive unit parameters (the only one I couldn't fimd was XMax (so I used an assumption) and got the results attached below. >350litres is a big speaker so maybe I'm doing something wrong. The website has various other calculators, including one for ports so I'll need to check it out later.
Capture.PNG
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#48 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by steve s »

IslandPink wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:01 pm Wouldn't that die away quickly though ? - it would just be frequency anomalies caused by the vent length and lobing with the main driver output, yes ? This sounded like stored energy being released, I could hear the box after the output from the upper Le Cleac'h horn had stopped. It was disappointing because the sides are well reinforced on those anyway, it was all 25mm birch ply and I had internal bracing.
Mark it sounds to me you are describing an average ported bass cab
In my static caravan I've a pair of early 1960s 'well curved' ported speakers with 10" drivers.. they sound ok .. but I've been thinking of replacing them with some lowthers/ 15" bass drivers
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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IslandPink
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#49 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by IslandPink »

Sounds like we're singing from the same hymn sheet, Steve !
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#50 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Scottmoose »

IslandPink wrote: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:01 pm Wouldn't that die away quickly though ? - it would just be frequency anomalies caused by the vent length and lobing with the main driver output, yes ? This sounded like stored energy being released, I could hear the box after the output from the upper Le Cleac'h horn had stopped. It was disappointing because the sides are well reinforced on those anyway, it was all 25mm birch ply and I had internal bracing.
Depends on the frequency[ies] and amplitude of the duct fundamental and its harmonic modes. For the majority of vented boxes this particular matter isn't an issue, but it can be a significant one for Onkens, which as noted is likely one reason they have their fans (since some like the effect) and others who don't care for them. In fairness, as noted not all Onkens or boxes described as such have this issue; it's a potential one that depends on the design specifics -individual duct CSA, length & aspect ratio. If you can get away with short enough ducts for the target Fb and vent CSA, then it's inaudible (the speaker may have audible colourations from other causes of course). Or, as in the case of Dave, where he's aiming for resistive venting rather than output, the pipe resonances of the ducting are inaudible for other reasons.
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Ray P
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#51 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Ray P »

I've been playing with the calculators on this site a bit more;

http://www.mh-audio.nl/Loudspeakers.html#top

to explore a bass reflex design suitable for the 10inch Lii Audio drive units. I've ended up with a very big speaker in order to maximise SPL (because of my low powered amps). Here's the cabinet info;
Capture.PNG
and here's the port info using the cabinet numbers above;
Capture2.PNG
Does this look about right? I started looking at this with a view to a simpler version of the pear-shaped Lii speakers, with simple ports on the front baffle, but the volume with the cabinet calculator info above is more than twice the volume of the Lii speakers?

BTW I don't have an Xmax figure for the Lii drive units so have assumed 1mm, but iteratively changing this up to 5mm doesn't seem to make any difference?
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#52 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by steve s »

My view is a larger cab will result in a better sound, more of open baffle like sound right across the range.
The bigger the cab, the less critical the port tuning becomes
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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Ray P
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#53 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Ray P »

steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:18 am My view is a larger cab will result in a better sound, more of open baffle like sound right across the range.
The bigger the cab, the less critical the port tuning becomes
Thanks Steve, I hasd king of assumed that big is good and I'm fortunate in being able, I think, to accommodate large cabinets, which in some ways don't take up any more room 'estate' than an open baffle. After being asked to to share the CAD section I produced for the Lii cabinet I got to wondering about doing both an OB and a BR. I've started to sketch out a curved, ellipse-based, cabinet of the volume calculated in the post above.
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#54 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by izzy wizzy »

steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:18 am My view is a larger cab will result in a better sound, more of open baffle like sound right across the range.
The bigger the cab, the less critical the port tuning becomes
That's interesting and a question I asked on my thread without comment. There must be a downside to a big box?
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#55 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by steve s »

izzy wizzy wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:10 pm
steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:18 am My view is a larger cab will result in a better sound, more of open baffle like sound right across the range.
The bigger the cab, the less critical the port tuning becomes
That's interesting and a question I asked on my thread without comment. There must be a downside to a big box?
Yes obviously the size and higher chance of the cabinet playing along with the music from my experience.

Going back a few years when I first got into open baffles I had quite a few large corner speakers to compare, and I once spent a day clamping a large box to an open baffle, it was a no brainer sound wise that a smaller box sounds restricted with the drivers I was using and still use, compared to a large box or even better, just a baffle
Exception being in the bass of course..

I'm taking about traditional full range driver types, not some of the modern crap which are flat in response and constipated in sound..
( just my view of course..)

Cheers..
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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#56 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by chris661 »

steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:57 pm
I'm taking about traditional full range driver types, not some of the modern crap which are flat in response and constipated in sound..
( just my view of course..)

Cheers..
Hoping to change your view on that at the next Owston :wink:

Chris
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#57 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Ray P »

steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:57 pm I'm taking about traditional full range driver types, not some of the modern crap which are flat in response and constipated in sound..
I know what you mean Steve - it'll be interesting to find out which camp the Lii units fall into - on my earlier quick test of them they sounded promising.

In terms of the large Bass Reflex box for them, my thinking is ellipse shaped vertical sections, internal bracing and sand damped side panels.
Last edited by Ray P on Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#58 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by steve s »

chris661 wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:26 pm
steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:57 pm
I'm taking about traditional full range driver types, not some of the modern crap which are flat in response and constipated in sound..
( just my view of course..)

Cheers..
Hoping to change your view on that at the next Owston :wink:

Chris
I can't imagine you bringing what I had in mind Chris.. but I don't mind having my view changed
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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#59 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by steve s »

Ray P wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:34 pm
steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:57 pm I'm taking about traditional full range driver types, not some of the modern crap which are flat in response and constipated in sound..
I know what you mean Steve - it'll be interesting to find out which camp the Lii units fit into - on my earlier quick test of them they sounded promising.

In terms of the large Bass Reflex box for them, my thinking is ellipse shaped vertical sections, internal bracing and sand damped side panels.
I'm sure they fall into the vintage type of driver Ray.
They are based on coral's ?

Regarding your planned cabs, diy and over engineering go hand in hand in a good way.
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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#60 Re: Lii Audio Speakers

Post by Ray P »

steve s wrote: Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:09 pm Regarding your planned cabs, diy and over engineering go hand in hand in a good way.
In for a penny, in for a pound Steve - actually quite a few lbs I imagine :)

Can anyone give me a steer on locating the port(s) on the front baffle?
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