Idle musings

Dedicated to those large boxes at one end of the room
JamesD
Old Hand
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

#16 Re: Idle musings

Post by JamesD »

Hi Ed,

Many thanks for that - I am at least 10-15 years behind with the state of the art and 45 years since I first started using a drum machine... In my youth I (played at trains) joined a music synthesiser group at Uni - we had to design and build all our kit - great fun - 25 smelly geeks in a small room each with a soldering iron and multicore flux.... no wonder my brains are addled now...

Great update though!

Thanks!!!
User avatar
Dave the bass
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 12273
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 4:36 pm
Location: NW Kent, Darn Sarf innit.

#17 Re: Idle musings

Post by Dave the bass »

Just as an aside, IMO , even old drum machines have helped produce amazing music.

2 examples.





Sorry for the thread diversion Ant.
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
User avatar
Nick
Site Admin
Posts: 15706
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 am
Location: West Yorkshire

#18 Re: Idle musings

Post by Nick »

And of course

Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
User avatar
Greg
Social outcast
Posts: 3198
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:14 am
Location: Bristol, UK

#19 Re: Idle musings

Post by Greg »

JamesD wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:26 pm Hi Greg,

Here is wiki statement on drum machines
I was referring to the machine generated patterns that maintain a constant beat - a human drummer speeds up and slows down their beat pattern whilst paying within the time signature to accentuate the feel of the track.

This is illustrated in this youtube video where time signatures can also be quantised and recorded drum tracks brought into strict alignment with the time signature..
- it kills the life in the track

Sorry if this was what you were referring too and I got it wrong.

ciao

James
Thanks James, better educated now :oops:
User avatar
Greg
Social outcast
Posts: 3198
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:14 am
Location: Bristol, UK

#20 Re: Idle musings

Post by Greg »

Have to say though, both Dave’s and Nick’s examples do not seem to me to be any sound that represents drums, so how can they be drum machines? I would expect a drum machine to try to replicate a real set of drums and none of these examples do, in my head, anyway. I have a mate that has a set of electronic drum pads that IMO does a reasonable job at replicating the real thing. I have no doubt that a drum machine can sound like the real thing, but let’s have some more realistic examples. Otherwise, percussive sounds are just that, percussive sounds. They sound nothing like drums and cymbals. They are just artificial synthesised percussive sound. I don’t have a problem with that because the effect makes a positive contribution to the particular music, but in my head that sound has nothing to do with drums, natural or synthetic.

Am I wrong?
User avatar
Nick
Site Admin
Posts: 15706
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 am
Location: West Yorkshire

#21 Re: Idle musings

Post by Nick »

so how can they be drum machines
Well, they are playing the part that would be done by a drum kit, using sounds that are close analogues of the instruments they are replacing.
but in my head that sound has nothing to do with drums, natural or synthetic.
You could equally say these sounds are not Harpsichords/Clavier, but they are clearly taking their part.



I think the point is as Ed said, that depending on the programmiong, now you cant tell if its a drum machine, a real drummer that has been messed with in pro tools, or Steve Gadd. But the classic "drum machine" sounds work because they are clearly artificial.

Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
simon
Thermionic Monk Status
Posts: 5600
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:22 am
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire

#22 Re: Idle musings

Post by simon »

Ali Tait wrote: Actually I find that too Simon, the bass available was a real ear opener for me, even more so hearing Vic’s creations, never heard bass like that in a domestic setting.
I was thinking about this earlier Ali, I'd love to hear Vic's speakers - I didn't realise how important low bass is to me until I had some...
User avatar
Ali Tait
Eternally single
Posts: 4373
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Galashiels

#23 Re: Idle musings

Post by Ali Tait »

Yes that was exactly my thoughts.
chris661
Shed dweller
Posts: 2556
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:29 am
Location: Sheffield

#24 Re: Idle musings

Post by chris661 »

Greg wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:19 pm They sound nothing like drums and cymbals.
At the risk of opening a fairly major can o' worms, the only thing that sounds like a drum kit is a drum kit. There are various reasons for this, including the serious directivity mis-match between drum kit and speakers.

However, I'd suggest the following: nobody wants the experience of a drum kit played by, say, Phil Rudd, in their living room. It's too damn loud.

What I (and I suspect others) want to hear is a reasonable approximation at enjoyable levels. Is it, in the strictest sense, high-fidelity? No. But it's much more fun.

Chris

PS - Generally agree with those saying more LF extension is useful. Some music is more demanding than others, but movies seem to go quite low pretty often, which is fun on a system that's flat to 10Hz.
User avatar
Ali Tait
Eternally single
Posts: 4373
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Galashiels

#25 Re: Idle musings

Post by Ali Tait »

simon wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:29 pm
Ali Tait wrote: Actually I find that too Simon, the bass available was a real ear opener for me, even more so hearing Vic’s creations, never heard bass like that in a domestic setting.
I was thinking about this earlier Ali, I'd love to hear Vic's speakers - I didn't realise how important low bass is to me until I had some...
I did ask him about bringing them to an Owston, but says they are way too heavy.
simon
Thermionic Monk Status
Posts: 5600
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:22 am
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire

#26 Re: Idle musings

Post by simon »

That's a shame, I'm sure there's many would be very interested to hear them
User avatar
Ali Tait
Eternally single
Posts: 4373
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Galashiels

#27 Re: Idle musings

Post by Ali Tait »

Aye, thats what I said. I'll get round to making a pair sometime. He's been trying a few different things-
https://www.trans-fi.com/diy-speaker-blog
steve s
Shed dweller
Posts: 2829
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:19 pm
Location: east yorks

#28 Re: Idle musings

Post by steve s »

Ali Tait wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:42 am
simon wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:29 pm
Ali Tait wrote: Actually I find that too Simon, the bass available was a real ear opener for me, even more so hearing Vic’s creations, never heard bass like that in a domestic setting.
I was thinking about this earlier Ali, I'd love to hear Vic's speakers - I didn't realise how important low bass is to me until I had some...
I did ask him about bringing them to an Owston, but says they are way too heavy.
Has he seen what some people bring to owston Ali
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
vinylnvalves
Old Hand
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:08 pm

#29 Re: Idle musings

Post by vinylnvalves »

steve s wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:57 am
Ali Tait wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:42 am
simon wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:29 pm
I was thinking about this earlier Ali, I'd love to hear Vic's speakers - I didn't realise how important low bass is to me until I had some...
I did ask him about bringing them to an Owston, but says they are way too heavy.
Has he seen what some people bring to owston Ali
They look nice and small compared to the 2 fridges, sorry bass cabinets I bought along with massive horns a couple of years back.. Looking at Vics setup as maybe an option of a smaller arrangement for a second system :lol:
User avatar
Ali Tait
Eternally single
Posts: 4373
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Galashiels

#30 Re: Idle musings

Post by Ali Tait »

steve s wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:57 am
Ali Tait wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:42 am
simon wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:29 pm
I was thinking about this earlier Ali, I'd love to hear Vic's speakers - I didn't realise how important low bass is to me until I had some...
I did ask him about bringing them to an Owston, but says they are way too heavy.
Has he seen what some people bring to owston Ali
Possibly not. :D

He wasn't keen though, there doesn't look much to them, but there's a fair weight there.
Post Reply