My very first breadboard

What people are working on at the moment
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Cressy Snr
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#61

Post by Cressy Snr »

Nick wrote:
I quite like this breadboarding lark. Don't know why I didn't do it sooner.
That makes two of us :-)
:D

Meanwhile here's a simulation of a CLCLC PSU that would be suitable for the PX25 amp. It looks nice, and there are no 'lytics in there. Whether that's a good thing, who knows? To avoid having too big a tweak cap to get 429 volts, the 5U4G has been subbed for a GZ34

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Steve
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#62

Post by Nick »

Possibly as importantly, that setup seems to show a nice fast and damped response to a transiant.
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#63

Post by Cressy Snr »

Hi Nick,

There was a little bit of overshoot on power-up but once under way, as you say, the response to the current step simulation was nicely controlled. :)

It looks, in theory to be a good PSU. I'll see how it goes.

I've subbed in a GZ34 into the existing power supply, which has pushed the HT to the nominal 400V across the valves at 55mA and brought the driver stage almost right on RCA's recommended figures with 5V at 6mA idle and 258V at the anode.

The PX25s are now running at 22W dissipation 25W is the max, so 22W is about as far as I'm realistically prepared to go.

Again the sound quality has inched up a bit more.

Steve
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#64

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Bit more tweaking today after work. That little 33uF electrolytic sprag in the centre of the four big caps has been replaced by another nice big 30uF motor run cap courtesy of Maplins. My how these things tower over the Hammond choke :)

Most of that spurious resistance has now been taken out of the supply. The first resistor is now a 10R 10W wirewound and the one after the second cap has been reduced to 40R. The resulting improvement has been at the bass end which has noticeably tightened and speeded up, giving a more solid foundation to the music. Also I can now get the same B+ with a NOS RCA 5U4G that previously needed a GZ34. I like the sound of the 5U4G so I'm very happy with the way it's turning out.

Here's the present supply with a current step down from 124 to 55mA applied. It overshoots on startup but after that the step is well controlled.

Image

Now wouldn't one of those huge TJ meshplate 274B/n rectifiers look sooo cool ? (Stop it! )


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#65

Post by Cressy Snr »

Nick wrote: You might be better disconnecting the center tap and using a hum pot, or at least a pair of resistors to create a center.

Or at least split the resistor over both legs so the center is back to being the center.
I added a couple of 10 turn Bourns 100R wirewound pots across the PX25 filaments. This has enabled the remaining power valve hum to be nulled out quite nicely. The amp is very very quiet now apart from a slight bit of residual hum when the ear is placed next to the speaker, probably PSU ripple that the twin choke power supply will reduce further once it is brought in.

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#66

Post by Cressy Snr »

Hi

I've started to plumb in the 46 driver stage, making it a 3 stage amp

6A6-46-PX25

The 6A6 remains as the input valve feeding the triode strapped 46 to drive the PX25s. Both the 6A6 and the 46 can be used as drivers but the 46 can deliver a lot more current into the grids of the power valves and is a direct heated valve.

Here's a pic of the breadboard with the necessary hardware mounted. 6A6s and PX25s glowing like good 'uns

Image

The toroid behind the rectifier has had two sets of 10 turns of 20SWG/0.9mm enameled copper wire, wound on top of the existing windings to give 2.53 volts when drawing 1.75A of current. This will serve as the filament transformer for the two National Union 46 drivers, here seen mounted on outriggers from the main audio module.

The toroid also has a 35 - 0 - 35V winding that could be used as a negative supply to the drivers, which need -30 grid volts, if I choose to grid bias them. Pretty flexible then.

The extra bits are not wired in yet but I'll probably have them done tomorrow. It'll probably have too much gain and hum like buggery (6a6 -gain 35, 46 - gain 5.6) but that's the beauty of breadboarding; one can try things out without having to do a major rebuild if it doesn't work out.

I can always pull down the gain by losing the bypass cap off the 6A6.

Steve
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#67

Post by Cressy Snr »

Right

The 46 driver stage has been interspersed (sic) between the 6A6s and the PX25s. The resulting sound quality is a bit good I have to say. Direct, dynamic and with good detail.

I thought that, with the introduction of the extra gain stage, hum levels would increase. However, this has not happened. Therefore, in terms of noise performance, given the fact that the valves are all AC heated, I'm pleased with the performance of the breadboard.

One fly in the ointment though, is that the voltage I'm able to get the driver to swing is compromised by the resistor loading. It's not so much of a problem with the PX25, as this valve (gain 9) is quite easy to drive for DHT, but with something like a 300B, it might struggle unless a high HT voltage was available.

I've settled on an 11K load as one that gives a nice low distortion drive to the outputs. But of course being a power valve, the 46 would be far better served by transformer coupling it to the outputs or at least choke loading followed by cap coupling.

Nevertheless, even with less than ideal resistor loading, the 46 makes a superb driver, able to swing enough voltage and current to get PX25s singing. Transformer or choke-cap coupled, this little gem would hardly break sweat driving 300Bs.

Here's a pic:

Image

I've put both the drivers together on the left of the audio board rather than having one sticking out on the right.

Now a question. Can anyone recommend a good interstage transformer capable of dealing with a standing current of around 30mA?

The Hammond 157G 30H 40mA choke looks reasonable as an anode choke and is cheap at £9.00. The Hammond 1 : 1 interstages look OK at 44H and 30mA and at £26 each are again relatively cheap.

Other ideas anyone?


Steve
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Nick
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#68

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I would have thought you would be hard pushed to get close to the hammonds on price. It would be good to know what they are like.
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#69

Post by Lee S »

SteveTheShadow wrote:The Hammond 157G 30H 40mA choke looks reasonable as an anode choke and is cheap at £9.00.
Hi Steve.

Nice work. The amp looks a good 'un.

I have a pair of Hammond 157Gs and have not as yet used them. What were you going to use them for? Choke loading the 46 or the 6A6?

Cheers
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#70

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Lee S wrote:
SteveTheShadow wrote:The Hammond 157G 30H 40mA choke looks reasonable as an anode choke and is cheap at £9.00.
Hi Steve.

Nice work. The amp looks a good 'un.

I have a pair of Hammond 157Gs and have not as yet used them. What were you going to use them for? Choke loading the 46 or the 6A6?

Cheers
Hi Lee

The 6A6s are already choke loaded by Hammond 156H 8mA chokes, which can be seen in front of the audio module.

The 157Gs will be used to load the 46s

Nick, I'll let you know how the Hammond interstages sound. It will be cheap enough to try both the choke and the transformer options for coupling the 46s, so I'll be contacting Philip sometime this month.

As a stopgap for now I might have a look at grid bias for the driver stage, It'll free up a bit more HT

Steve
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#71

Post by Paul Barker »

At £9 a pop put two in series.
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#72

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Hi Paul

Yes, for that price one might as well make good use of them.

I've reverted the amp now to a two stage, with the 6A6 as input/driver.
The reasoning behind this is that the breadboard really needs to be expanded to make most of the proposals for the three stage amp.
I don't have the room on it to do what I want to do, especially with the Power supplies and the valve loads.

What I'll do is start another breadboard with the 46 preceded by a 6A6.

Specs for this one will be:

CLCLC PSU for the output stage
separate PSU for the driver stage
separate PSU for the input stage
Choke loaded first stage
Choke loaded driver stage

Once this is underway I'll start another thread for it.
There is a certain magic about a DHT driven by another DH valve (but of course the panel know this already) This level of sound deserves the best shot I can give it. No point being half arsed about it.

Meanwhile on this breadboard I'll concentrate on the PSU as per Nick's earlier suggestions, and upgrade the general quality of the components. I've already got a great sound, made even better by upgrading the caps on the 6A6s to Black Gates and pairing up two chokes in series per valve to give 300H and half the capacitance.

I have a clearer top and a bigger soundstage as a result.

Steve
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#73

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SteveTheShadow wrote:
Meanwhile on this breadboard I'll concentrate on the PSU as per Nick's earlier suggestions, and upgrade the general quality of the components. I've already got a great sound, made even better by upgrading the caps on the 6A6s to Black Gates and pairing up two chokes in series per valve to give 300H and half the capacitance.

I have a clearer top and a bigger soundstage as a result.

Steve
Whilst reading an old book by Mr Scroggie I came across the use of grid chokes instead of grid resistors. I know that the panel know all about them but I thought I might as well have a try as I have no experience with them.

So I added a couple of the cheap Hammond 3700R/150H chokes to the grids of the output valves rather than the resistors. Now it could very well be argued that they have insufficient inductance to give subterranean bass but I must say I have noticed no loss at the bottom end whatsoever.

Instead I have a silky smooth sweet effortlessness to the sound that I have not heard before, from my own creations at any rate.
A bit like this :)

Image

Seems that the further back in time you go with the ideas, the better the sound you get.

I'll be testing my Sowter PP output transformers this afternoon to see if they would make a good candidate for parafeeding from the driver stage to the PX25s I might even be able get away with them directly as interstages as they'll only be idling at 7mA quiescent. We shall see.

Nice

BTW Andrew has very kindly offered me a pair of Fostex FE207Es at a nice price. When I finally get around to paying him :oops: This of course means that I could be bringing a pair of 5' 4" Metronomes to Whitham in the Autumn. Melanie has passed a pair of mock ups as fit to grace the living room so watch this space. 8)

Steve
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#74

Post by Nick »

I have some higher inductance grid chokes you are welcome to try as well Steve.

Also, if you are going to play with interstages, do you want to borrow the pair of AE interstages I have? It would be interesting to get a comparison of them against the hammonds.

You could even come and pick them up and bring the PX amp, as I would love to hear what they are like :-)
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#75

Post by Cressy Snr »

Thanks Nick

I'll PM you. It'll be good to try some proper iron on the amp.

Steve
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