Zero emission road vehicles.

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jack
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#436 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by jack »

There's been a lot on this recently. Basically it seems that if you have a decently modern petrol car, it's bizarrely cheaper and greener to keep it.

Yes, cost per km is lower, but lifetime cost, unless you're doing a huge amount of miles and /or keeping it a long time, is worse. By "cost", I mean both financial and CO2, especially when you look at the lifecycle environmental cost of all the electronics.

Counterintuitive, but unless the cost of the EVs drops significantly, for most folk it just doesn't make sense (except possibly morally).

Roll on fuel cells...
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#437 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by pre65 »

jack wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:35 pm

Roll on fuel cells...
Yes indeed, I still think that is the way forward.
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#438 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Daniel Quinn »

If you get your ev via the motorbility scheme it is considerably cheaper to run.

BBC radio 4 programme did an analysis an ev car is much cheaper to start off with a petrol vehicle is only cheaper after 5 years

With petrol getting more expensive the stats may have changed
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#439 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by pre65 »

Not zero emission, but very low.

This piston-less engine runs on hydrogen and revs to 25k rpm.

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#440 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Nick »

Love the hand waving "How does it work without seals? High tolerances are needed to avoid seals" Not sure that has avoided anything :-).
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#441 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Nick wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:40 pm Love the hand waving "How does it work without seals? High tolerances are needed to avoid seals" Not sure that has avoided anything :-).
Who knows, but it has taken quite a long time to get internal combustion engines to what they are today.

Image a pair of those engines driving a generator in a medium sized car with enough battery power for (say) 50 miles without the engine(s).

I've said it before, but I still think Hydrogen will have a part to play in the future of personal transport.

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#442 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Nick »

pre65 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:53 pm
Nick wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:40 pm Love the hand waving "How does it work without seals? High tolerances are needed to avoid seals" Not sure that has avoided anything :-).
Who knows, but it has taken quite a long time to get internal combustion engines to what they are today.

Image a pair of those engines driving a generator in a medium sized car with enough battery power for (say) 50 miles without the engine(s).

I've said it before, but I still think Hydrogen will have a part to play in the future of personal transport.

*
Sure, but as you know the killer of rotary engines is always the seals, and I like the way in that video they just sidestepped the problem. Cant help thinking they have said it will run on hydrogen as part of the attempt to promote the idea as there is nothing there that's better or worst with hydrogen or not other than the lack of carbon in the exhaust.

I just cant see what hydrogen gives you over synthetic fuels as a energy store, and it brings a huge set of its own problems.
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#443 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by vinylnvalves »

Isn’t it just a APU - a small jet engine. Rover did it last century putting a jet engine in a car. Hydrogen is a green gimmick currently. I know JCB and a couple of lorry manufacturers are looking at hydrogen, as batteries don’t have the power density currently for powerful vehicles. SAF -synthetic aviation fuel is the way aviation is going. Carbon - neutral not carbon zero. An aside TPV’s are looking promising - which could make electric cheaper, which may swing everything the other way.
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#444 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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vinylnvalves wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:29 pm An aside TPV’s are looking promising
What is a TPV ? :?
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#445 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Isn’t it just a APU - a small jet engine.
Looks to me to have individual power pulses.
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#446 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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pre65 wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:34 pm
vinylnvalves wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:29 pm An aside TPV’s are looking promising
What is a TPV ? :?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermophotovoltaic

I assume.
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#447 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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"TPV cells have been proposed as auxiliary power conversion devices for capture of otherwise lost heat in other power generation systems, such as steam turbine systems or solar cells."

In that case, how would it be useful in personal transport ?


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#448 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Nick »

They would be interesting in the exhaust of a hybrid, working in the same was as a MGU-H but without the moving parts.
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#449 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Nick wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:33 pm They would be interesting in the exhaust of a hybrid, working in the same was as a MGU-H but without the moving parts.
OK, that makes sense. :)
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#450 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by shane »

I didn’t know this was a thing outside the realm of science fiction, but if it’s more than just pie-in-the-sky it could be interesting.


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