What should we do about rising energy prices?

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Nick
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#61 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by Nick »

jack wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:30 pm It is, by all accounts, the best around but very new to the UK (they're a US company), so the app isn't that UK-friendly yet, but I've spoken with them and they're committed to the UK market.

I like that it's compact and the sensors are reasonably priced, plus the analysis software is pretty good. The architecture makes sense too...

I should have it installed next week - I'll do a write up in due course.
How are you finding it? I am considering similar.
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#62 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by jack »

Nick wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:50 am
jack wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:30 pm It is, by all accounts, the best around but very new to the UK (they're a US company), so the app isn't that UK-friendly yet, but I've spoken with them and they're committed to the UK market.

I like that it's compact and the sensors are reasonably priced, plus the analysis software is pretty good. The architecture makes sense too...

I should have it installed next week - I'll do a write up in due course.
How are you finding it? I am considering similar.
It'll be a few days yet as work has got in the way - should be in this weekend. I'll update as soon as. Promise.

I had to make a change to the main neutral block as there was no spare connection.

As of today, Bulb rates are now:
Day unit rate: 33.10p per kWh
Night unit rate: 19.79p per kWh
Standing charge: 41.75p per day

Octopus are 42.57p day and 28.4 p night, same standing charge

We're with Bulb. I downloaded our last year's Day and night readings and have graphed these in Google Sheets.

Had the GSHP serviced and the CoP measured - it's now 4.4. Latest software installed and lots of general minor sorting out.

Every bulb in the house is now low energy/LED. 52 halogens gone.

Large box of old halogen transformers removed from ceilings...
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Just finished making up a mini 200x200 three phase consumer unit to go in the meter cupboard. The WiFi aerial for the sensor unit is on the right. The sensor unit is on the left. No current transformers are installed yet.
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#63 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by jack »

Installed at last! I kind of like doing control panel stuff - it's cathartic.

Had a bitch of an issue finding a spare place to connect the neutral. The neutral Henley box was full, so I had to splice an extra one into one of the existing neutrals and use that. You can see the black box under the "N" Henley box - it was a pain. Luckily, the L1, L2 & L3 boxes each had a spare slot.

All wiring done live.
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#64 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by Nick »

Shabby. Though do I spot the neutral changing into yellow and green?
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#65 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by jack »

Nick wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:42 pm Shabby. Though do I spot the neutral changing into yellow and green?
Sort of. The only three phase 4-core I could find was brown/black/grey/green&yellow rather than blue, so I slipped bits of blue heat shrink on it.

The unit does instantaneous power calculations - it takes its own power from L1 but measures the voltage and current on each phase every second when calculating power.

At the moment it can't "group" CTs together, e.g. our GSHP is three phase but currently appears in reports as three separate lines. I'm assured that this feature will be added in the next few months as a lot of customers have asked for it.

Another feature they're adding is split rates, i.e. Economy 7 etc.

Another thing it can't do presently is associate a non-utility CT with a specific phase. This may not sound important, but if you have a phase where the voltage drops under heavy load, then power calculations will be out a bit. I'd also like to see the voltage readings which are not
separately logged ATM.
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#66 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

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All running pretty accurately - I ran it for 48 hours and compared it with the utility 3phase meter (sum of day & economy 7) and it was within 1% of that which is good.

The "Balance" value is the difference between the sum of the consumer CTs and the sum of the utility CTs, so in this case should be close to zero as it's basically the sum of all the errors (yes, before the statistical police leap in, I know it's not that simple)

So, this morning I zeroed all the data for a clean start.

I have all last year's data downloaded from Bulb, do I can now do a running comparison with live data.

Lots of graphs and tables are available, as well as the ability to download the raw data.

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#67 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

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I'm considering fitting a simple 12 volt immersion running off a couple of solar panels, we still have a hot water tank system, which I'm not getting rid of, but it would cut out our summer ( and a little winter ) gas use.
I'm wondering how many watts it would take, my calculations showed 200 -400 watt heaters should be enough
Hot water use is 4 showers s day, no other use for running hot water most days
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#68 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by ed »

steve s wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:56 am I'm wondering how many watts it would take, my calculations showed 200 -400 watt heaters should be enough
Hot water use is 4 showers s day, no other use for running hot water most days
++++ the following post assumes you're talking about 'in the house' and not the van ++++++

I'm intrigued by how you came up with 200-400 watts. I beleive the standard immersion is 3kw and if memory serves that takes about an hour to heat a cylinder. If you reckon like for like then 300 watts may take 10 hours to produce the same heat???... I am speculating.....

but....what size and type of panel were you thinking of for 400 watts? From experience of 100 watt mono panels, I am fairly certain 100 watts is v.optimistic at these latitudes. 100 watt panels at the moment are roughly 3'x2' so 400 watts would seem to be significant sizewise and won't guarantee 400 watts.

When I was researching panels for remote weather stations I found it impossible to find anybody that would give definitive figures, although things may/should have changed in the last 5 years or so.

We use an 8 kw electric shower...haven't noticed it's cost impact so far, but if you can have a shower in 5-10 mins it really doesn't matter how many you have in a day...it will no way compare to heating a whole cylinder with gas.

hope this was meaningful, not to mention correct...
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#69 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

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My estimation on heating our 180 ltrs tank was 10kJ was needed. So a 600w coil would need to run 16 hours to heat the tank.
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#70 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

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Something that may interest you... enquiring with EDF about changing my electric tariff. I cannot go on the cheap overnight tariff @ 4.8p/ kWh. As I don’t have an electric car. Tariff for heat pumps and storage heaters overnight is almost double that rate. Is the push for EV cars, being prioritised over general living?
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#71 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

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Assuming a lot.

10 minute shower "25-gallon emittance every 10 minutes https://www.bigbathroomshop.co.uk/info/ ... hower-use/"

So 4 * 25 * 4.54 Ltr a day. = 454L/ per day

Shower temp 38C https://www.mirashowers.co.uk/blog/mira ... mperature/ But seems it needs to be stored at at least 60C https://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/thi ... nsider.htm So guess there will be cold water added, so lets guess 50% hot to cold

General web opinion of incoming temperate 10C, so we need to heat 454 / 2L by 50C a day, so that's 225 * 50 * 4184 = 47,000,000J per day, so 50kW/Day or 2kWh all day

There may be errors in that and it assumes no losses.
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#72 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

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vinylnvalves wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:47 am Something that may interest you... enquiring with EDF about changing my electric tariff. I cannot go on the cheap overnight tariff @ 4.8p/ kWh. As I don’t have an electric car. Tariff for heat pumps and storage heaters overnight is almost double that rate. Is the push for EV cars, being prioritised over general living?
I wonder what it takes to convince them you have a EV? Maybe just get a charging point fitted would be enough.
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#73 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by vinylnvalves »

You have to have proof that you have an EV car... not just a charging point. I already thought about conning them :D

Our usage of hot water is based on what we use, which is about a tank. We do about 4 showers a day. Not at 10mins probably. I think the point is that a 600w heater isn’t going to be anywhere near big enough. When I thought I could get cheaper electricity I was looking at SunAmp thermal stores - nothing particularly clever, just a paraffin oil state change system, for providing water.
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#74 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by ed »

back on Steve's shower issue...

I've just measured mine(don't laugh at the geek). It's a Galaxy Aqua 1000, which I beleive is 7.5kw.
Exactly 3.4 ltrs per minute, so 5 min shower is 17 ltrs, which is also 7.5/12 i.e 0.625 kwh
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#75 Re: What should we do about rising energy prices?

Post by steve s »

Thanks Ed and all, yes the house.

I've just bought a thermometer probe to bury in the tank to see the average temp of the water, the thing is its not heating the tank up from cold, it about heating the usage, we gas and a mains immersion that can suppliment as required
I'll also check the water flow rate of the shower, but again that's mixed with cold, so again diluted
I've read a 200 watt will work, but how well I don't know.

I have, in the back of my mind, a plan to install 2 or 3 200 watt heaters in the tank.. and build up to the number of heaters and panels required as I see if and how well it works
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